By Joan Hennessy
The debate offered a unflattering view of American politics.
The debate offered a unflattering view of American politics.
The second presidential debate, pitting Donald J. Trump, the Republican, against Hillary Clinton, the Democrat, was to be a town hall meeting, a folksy event with undecided voters asking questions.

     But well before the two candidates strode on stage and chose to forego a handshake, everyone knew the event at Washington University in St. Louis would be no love fest. At one point, Trump referred to Clinton as “the devil.” Clinton charged that Trump was unfit to be president.
     The debate followed a tumultuous weekend for Trump after the release of an 11-year-old video in which he made inappropriate remarks about women. Clinton continued to face questions regarding transparency over her use of a private email server. 
     Afterward, both camps declared victory. But as we said in a post last week, it is possible to evaluate debates objectively. Using concepts on a grading rubric from the California State University, Northridge, website, consider four measures to evaluate the debate: presentation, organization, argument and rebuttal. Rate each candidate’s performance on a scale of 1 (poor performance) to 4 (excellent performance). Then take our survey on this page. (You may also wish to read a column on the debate by the fact-checking website, Politifact.com.)  
     Debate excerpts are taken from a transcript on the website of the American Presidency Project, University of California, Santa Barbara. 
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    1. Presentation: In stylistic terms, were the candidates clear and convincing? At times, Trump interrupted, sniffled and paced the stage while Clinton spoke. Clinton sat, sometimes taking notes and occasionally frowning while Trump spoke. 

     Score on presentation: 

     Clinton: 1 __2 __3__4__

     Trump: 1__2__3__4__

     2. Organization: Did each candidate answer the question he or she was asked? Did he or she make a statement that was supported with a logical argument and facts?
    Here is an excerpt from the first question, in which a voter asked: "The last debate could have been rated as MA, mature audiences, per TV parental guidelines. Knowing that educators assign viewing the presidential debates as students' homework, do you feel you're modeling appropriate and positive behavior for today's youth?" 

     Clinton: "Well, thank you. Are you a teacher? Yes, I think that that's a very good question, because I've heard from lots of teachers and parents about some of their concerns about some of the things that are being said and done in this campaign.
    "And I think it is very important for us to make clear to our children that our country really is great because we're good. And we are going to respect one another, lift each other up. We are going to be looking for ways to celebrate our diversity, and we are going to try to reach out to every boy and girl, as well as every adult, to bring them in to working on behalf of our country.
    "I have a very positive and optimistic view about what we can do together. That's why the slogan of my campaign is 'Stronger Together,' because I think if we work together, if we overcome the divisiveness that sometimes sets Americans against one another, and instead we make some big goals—and I've set forth some big goals, getting the economy to work for everyone, not just those at the top, making sure that we have the best education system from preschool through college and making it affordable, and so much else.
    "If we set those goals and we go together to try to achieve them, there's nothing in my opinion that America can't do. So that's why I hope that we will come together in this campaign. Obviously, I'm hoping to earn your vote, I'm hoping to be elected in November, and I can promise you, I will work with every American.
    "I want to be the president for all Americans, regardless of your political beliefs, where you come from, what you look like, your religion. I want us to heal our country and bring it together because that's, I think, the best way for us to get the future that our children and our grandchildren deserve." 

    Trump: "Well, I actually agree with that. I agree with everything she said. I began this campaign because I was so tired of seeing such foolish things happen to our country. This is a great country. This is a great land. I've gotten to know the people of the country over the last year-and-a-half that I've been doing this as a politician. I cannot believe I'm saying that about myself, but I guess I have been a politician.
    "And my whole concept was to make America great again. When I watch the deals being made, when I watch what's happening with some horrible things like Obamacare, where your health insurance and health care is going up by numbers that are astronomical, 68 percent, 59 percent, 71 percent, when I look at the Iran deal and how bad a deal it is for us, it's a one-sided transaction where we're giving back $150 billion to a terrorist state, really, the number one terror state, we've made them a strong country from really a very weak country just three years ago.
   "When I look at all of the things that I see and all of the potential that our country has, we have such tremendous potential, whether it's in business and trade, where we're doing so badly. Last year, we had almost $800 billion trade deficit. In other words, trading with other countries. We had an $800 billion deficit. It's hard to believe. Inconceivable.
   "You say who's making these deals? We're going the make great deals. We're going to have a strong border. We're going to bring back law and order. Just today, policemen [were] shot, two killed. And this is happening on a weekly basis. We have to bring back respect to law enforcement. At the same time, we have to take care of people on all sides. We need justice.
    "But I want to do things that haven't been done, including fixing and making our inner cities better for the African-American citizens that are so great, and for the Latinos, Hispanics, and I look forward to doing it. It's called make America great again."

     Score on organization:     

     Clinton: 1 __2 __3__4__

     Trump: 1__2__3__4__

    3. Argument: Did each candidate make a logical, persuasive argument? Did he or she back up assertions with facts? As put on the American Parliamentary Debate Association’s website: "The substance of the arguments should outweigh purely superficial style.
    Here is an excerpt in which one of the voters asked: "Do you believe you can be a devoted president to all the people in the United States?"

    Trump: "Absolutely. I mean, she calls our people deplorable, a large group, and irredeemable. I will be a president for all of our people. And I'll be a president that will turn our inner cities around and will give strength to people and will give economics to people and will bring jobs back.
    "Because NAFTA, signed by her husband [former President Bill Clinton], is perhaps the greatest disaster trade deal in the history of the world, not in this country. It stripped us of manufacturing jobs. We lost our jobs. We lost our money. We lost our plants. It is a disaster. And now she wants to sign TPP [Trans-Pacific Partnership], even though she says now she's for it. She called it the gold standard. And by the way, at the last debate, she lied, because it turned out that she did say the gold standard and she said she didn't say it. They actually said that she lied. OK? And she lied. But she's lied about a lot of things.
    "I would be a president for all of the people, African-Americans, the inner cities. Devastating what's happening to our inner cities. She's been talking about it for years. As usual, she talks about it, nothing happens. She doesn't get it done.
    "Same with the Latino Americans, the Hispanic Americans. The same exact thing. They talk, they don't get it done. You go into the inner cities and—you see it's 45 percent poverty. African-Americans now 45 percent poverty in the inner cities. The education is a disaster. Jobs are essentially nonexistent.
    "I mean, it's—you know, and I've been saying at big speeches where I have 20,000 and 30,000 people, what do you have to lose? It can't get any worse. And she's been talking about the inner cities for 25 years. Nothing's going to ever happen.
    "Let me tell you, if she's president of the United States, nothing's going to happen. It's just going to be talk. And all of her friends, the taxes we were talking about, and I would just get it by osmosis. She's not doing me any favors. But by doing all the others' favors, she's doing me favors."

     Clinton: "Well, 67 percent of the people voted to re-elect me when I ran for my second term, and I was very proud and very humbled by that.
    "... I have tried my entire life to do what I can to support children and families. You know, right out of law school, I went to work for the Children's Defense Fund. And Donald talks a lot about, you know, the 30 years I've been in public service. I'm proud of that. You know, I started off as a young lawyer working against discrimination against African-American children in schools and in the criminal justice system. I worked to make sure that kids with disabilities could get a public education, something that I care very much about. I have worked with Latinos—one of my first jobs in politics was down in south Texas registering Latino citizens to be able to vote. So I have a deep devotion, to use your absolutely correct word, to making sure that every American feels like he or she has a place in our country.
    "And I think when you look at the letters that I get, a lot of people are worried that maybe they wouldn't have a place in Donald Trump's America. They write me, and one woman wrote me about her son, Felix. She adopted him from Ethiopia when he was a toddler. He's 10 years old now. This is the only one country he's ever known. And he listens to Donald on TV, and he said to his mother one day, will he send me back to Ethiopia if he gets elected?
    "You know, children listen to what is being said. To go back to the very, very first question. And there's a lot of fear—in fact, teachers and parents are calling it the Trump effect. Bullying is up. A lot of people are feeling, you know, uneasy. A lot of kids are expressing their concerns.
    "So, first and foremost, I will do everything I can to reach out to everybody.

    Score on argument:   

     Clinton: 1 __2 __3__4__

     Trump: 1__2__3__4__

     4. Rebuttal: Was each candidate able to find the weakness in an opponent's argument and exploit it in rebuttal? 
     Here is another excerpt from a voter question: "Affordable Care Act, known as Obamacare, it is not affordable. Premiums have gone up. Deductibles have gone up. Copays have gone up. Prescriptions have gone up. And the coverage has gone down. What will you do to bring the cost down and make coverage better?" 

      Clinton: "He [Trump] is going to solve it by repealing it and getting rid of the Affordable Care Act. And I'm going to fix it, because I agree with you. Premiums have gotten too high. Copays, deductibles, prescription drug costs, and I've laid out a series of actions that we can take to try to get those costs down.
     "But here's what I don't want people to forget when we're talking about reining in the costs, which has to be the highest priority of the next president, when the Affordable Care Act passed, it wasn't just that 20 million got insurance who didn't have it before. But that in and of itself was a good thing. I meet these people all the time, and they tell me what a difference having that insurance meant to them and their families.
     "But everybody else, the 170 million of us who get health insurance through our employees got big benefits. Number one, insurance companies can't deny you coverage because of a pre-existing condition. Number two, no lifetime limits, which is a big deal if you have serious health problems.
    "Number three, women can't be charged more than men for our health insurance, which is the way it used to be before the Affordable Care Act. Number four, if you're under 26, and your parents have a policy, you can be on that policy until the age of 26, something that didn't happen before.
    "So I want very much to save what works and is good about the Affordable Care Act. But we've got to get costs down. We've got to provide additional help to small businesses so that they can afford to provide health insurance. But if we repeal it, as Donald has proposed, and start over again, all of those benefits I just mentioned are lost to everybody, not just people who get their health insurance on the exchange. And then we would have to start all over again.
    "Right now, we are at 90 percent health insurance coverage. That's the highest we've ever been in our country."

     Trump: "It is such a great question and it's maybe the question I get almost more than anything else, outside of defense. Obamacare is a disaster. You know it. We all know it. It's going up at numbers that nobody's ever seen worldwide. Nobody's ever seen numbers like this for health care.
     "It's only getting worse. In '17, it implodes by itself. Their method of fixing it is to go back and ask Congress for more money, more and more money. We have right now almost $20 trillion in debt.
     "Obamacare will never work. It's very bad, very bad health insurance. Far too expensive. And not only expensive for the person that has it, unbelievably expensive for our country. It's going to be one of the biggest line items very shortly.
     "We have to repeal it and replace it with something absolutely much less expensive and something that works, where your plan can actually be tailored. We have to get rid of the lines around the state, artificial lines, where we stop insurance companies from coming in and competing, because they want—and President Obama and whoever was working on it—they want to leave those lines, because that gives the insurance companies essentially monopolies. We want competition.
     "You will have the finest health care plan there is. She wants to go to a single-payer plan, which would be a disaster, somewhat similar to Canada. And if you haven't noticed the Canadians, when they need a big operation, when something happens, they come into the United States in many cases because their system is so slow. It's catastrophic in certain ways.
     "But she wants to go to single payer, which means the government basically rules everything. Hillary Clinton has been after this for years. Obamacare was the first step. Obamacare is a total disaster. And not only are your rates going up by numbers that nobody's ever believed, but your deductibles are going up, so that unless you get hit by a truck, you're never going to be able to use it."

     Score on rebuttal:           

     Clinton: 1 __2 __3__4__

     Trump: 1__2__3__4__

     Overall score: A perfect score on all four sections would be 16. So who won the debate? Take our survey, above. 

      Related:

      Who won the vice-presidential debate? 

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